New developments ...

[Zeitgeist Mom]

Although it is my head, neck and shoulder which are feeling the most injured, I have nothing to show for those. However, my leg did come up sporting a fairly decent bruise so at least I have somethig to show off.... ;)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb216/Hayleywart/IMG_0497.jpg

As for Kita, I have some new developments on the subject.....

I texted the trainer last night to let her know that with OH out of work, and things not going well so far with her backing, I would like to bring her home today as I cannot afford to keep her there.

She texted me back to say that she would like to persevere with Kita, and would I consider working yard duty in exchange for her continuing with Kita. So I have decided to give it a shot and see how it goes. Only thing is it may mean a lot longer still not riding :(

I have also been offered two other horses to ride, but if I am doing this probably won't have time for them as well, as both need loads of work. One not yet backed, and other one apparently a bit of a problem child (chestnut arab mare :rolleyes:). What I might do is sell Kita anyway once she is backed, and then get myself another horse. I was a bit upset when I saw myself on her - I think I am too big for her. :(

Just a mere second before all hell broke loose .... (unfortunately OH was in too much of a panic to take those exciting pics :miffed:)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb216/Hayleywart/Nikita/DSC08800.jpg

[vels mum]

Big hugs, hard decisions to make we are all here for you

ps I dont think you look too big on her. x

[Hollysmum]

I don't think you look too big at all honey xx

[gem]

Lots of decisions to make. I don't think you look too big on her at all but my god she looks tense doesn't she? I'd be terrified getting on her! Not very helpful sorry :lol:

I do have a bit of a soft spot for chestnut arab mares though, especially the asbo ones :) Maybe give it a go and see?

[x x Helen x x]

agree i dont think your too big and with Gem, she looks extremely tense, back legs ready to spring for it lol

[My Crazy Clan]

I don't think you look to big! But you can see how tense Kita is in the photo but what a nice thing for her trainer to suggest.

[Zeitgeist Mom]

agree i dont think your too big and with Gem, she looks extremely tense, back legs ready to spring for it lol

And boy did they spring :lol:

[bimba]

I don't think you look too big on her at all, she probably looks smaller because of the way she's standing due to being she's so tight and tense.

Really hope you work something out, she's such a stunning girl!

[africa]

Ouchee that bruise is going to go some lovely colours.

You might have time for one of the horses even if you don't have time for both. It would be nice for you to be able to ride.

You really can see Kita is just on the point of exploding in that pic. Did you manage to get your foot in the stirrup before she did or were you flying around with only one stirrup?

[XxFudgexX]

Wow how tense does she look, you can almost see the explosion about to happen..

I think that thats nice of F to offer to keep working on her in exchange for yard work and you never know there might be horses there you can ride too,

I dont think you look too big on her at all.

[Zeitgeist Mom]

Ouchee that bruise is going to go some lovely colours.

You might have time for one of the horses even if you don't have time for both. It would be nice for you to be able to ride.

You really can see Kita is just on the point of exploding in that pic. Did you manage to get your foot in the stirrup before she did or were you flying around with only one stirrup?

I *think* I got my foot in but to be honest I'm not sure - it all happened so quickly!

Thanks for all the encouraging comments re her size. :)

[lilholley]

Ohh poor baby she looks so tense..

What a kind suggestion of F's - hope you get something arranged xx

[Susan]

I think it is encouraging that the trainer wants to continue, but maybe have a set time Hayley, that you will give it a month or six weeks or something.
Maybe I am being overly pessimistic, but I just think now that you deserve a horse you can relax and enjoy and it is going to be a long time, if ever, before you can do that with Kita.
Also, I do wonder how much of this side of her the yard you bought her from knew about and I just hope that they sold her in good faith and not knowing that she would be like this.

[Zeitgeist Mom]

I think it is encouraging that the trainer wants to continue, but maybe have a set time Hayley, that you will give it a month or six weeks or something.
Maybe I am being overly pessimistic, but I just think now that you deserve a horse you can relax and enjoy and it is going to be a long time, if ever, before you can do that with Kita.
Also, I do wonder how much of this side of her the yard you bought her from knew about and I just hope that they sold her in good faith and not knowing that she would be like this.

Susan to be honest, I am a bit worried about this. I don't know if she will ever be a calm horse, and that kind of bolting is so dangerous, especially as the majority of my hacking will be on roads. I am fairly sure the people I bought her from knew what she was like. She was wearing a neck strap when I tried her out and when I questioned it they just said, 'oh we always put one on all our horses.' Also when I came in with a cream jacket on, they thought perhaps I should take it off before getting on her :lol:. More fool me. I'm like one of those women who take on men who beat them, and keep saying to themselves, 'I can fix them'.

What worries me most is how much more nervous she is now that when she went to the trainer. I feel like the last 18 months of calming her down have all been undone. When I watch F with her though, I can't fault her. She is very calm, and relaxed, but just perseveres until she gets positive results. I really like the way she handles Kita, but the pressure of riding, and the frightening falls, seem to have cooked her brain all over again. :(

[Zeitgeist Mom]

Just to add ... this was taken a few minutes before my fall ....

YouTube- MOV08783.MPG

[Smurf]

Ouch thst bruise looks really sore!

Yes on the pic you can see her almost ready to explode! She really reminds me of Vinnie! The Friesian has really came out in her.

Hayley its a good sign that F wants to continue with her, she looks so good in the video. F is a realy quiet rider and looks like she is trying to bring out the best in Kita. kita may be one of these one person horses?? Something has def happened when she was younger to make her react like that! What about getting an animal communicator is see Kita then you might be able to get to the bottom of what has happened in her past?

[lilholley]

I just watched it by clicking the link.. I can never remember how to do it - every time I have to go into the video section and read the instructions!

She looks fairly relaxed in the video to me - its so strange.. Is it the actual process of mounting do you think? Maybe some previous owners have tried vaulting on her or just throwing themselves on without taking it slowly..

[Zeitgeist Mom]

kita may be one of these one person horses??
That's exactly what F said. Just hope we can convince her that the one person is me...

[XxFudgexX]

She looks to be going so well in the video too..

[Zeitgeist Mom]

I just watched it by clicking the link.. I can never remember how to do it - every time I have to go into the video section and read the instructions!

She looks fairly relaxed in the video to me - its so strange.. Is it the actual process of mounting do you think? Maybe some previous owners have tried vaulting on her or just throwing themselves on without taking it slowly..

I'm not sure. I do know she was badly treated in her first home, but I don't know details.

She definitely has issues about being mounted, but that could be due to my fall last year when I sat on her. And then showed her my foot. Scary stuff!! she went beserk then and I came off and she wouldn't let me back on.

It could also be that my body protector shoulder pads were a bit rustly. I don't think she liked them too much, but I'm glad I didn't take them off because I landed hard on my shoulder, and I really think the BP helped.

[XenaWarriorPrincess]

Oooh nice bruise!!
Gosh she does look tense. She looks a little more settled in the video though.
As for the neck strap we use them on all our breakers and pointers at work, saves jabbing them in the mouth if they do have a bit of a fit! I still use one when i ride xanth, so i wouldnt let that put you off...the jacket thing sounds a bit suspect though!!
F sounds really concerned for kitas progress especially if she wants you to do some yard work in return for her staying.
*hugs*
xx

[funkyboots]

i don't think F will give up, its that thought you might fail with a horse.

and remember,its not falling...its dismounting with FLAIR DA'HLING!!!!

do you think you get tense at the thought you might end up kissing the dirt? have you tried diffrent methods of mounting? we had a block once,.,gert big thing of wood with a ramp but with 14.2 up you could just swing your leg over without touching the stirrup. i'd pull my down and put me foot in once i was on

[Zeitgeist Mom]

To be honest Funkyboots I didn't feel nervous at all getting on. I honestly thought she would be fine. F is a calm and relaxed as anything, and she bolted and bronced her off the day before too, not at the mounting block, but about a minute after she mounted.

[Horse Mad Mum]

Sounds very interesting Hayley, maybe if she has a few more weeks she may be better, but I am nit sure if it were me I coul ever feel safe haveing seen and been on that , would F buy her do you think if it comes to the crunch ? HMM X

[Zeitgeist Mom]

Amanda - I know for sure I couldn't sit to that if she did it again, and I have sat some broncs in my life! I am tempted to give / sell her to F to let her produce and sell on, but I'm worried I will see her out and about later on and regret it. :(

[My Crazy Clan]

ah didn't see the video before, personally i think she can be "fixed" it might take a long time but with someone that has the time and patience to do it she will be a little cracker, although she looks tense in the video she's working ****** well!

[Cobby Keri]

oucchhh your leg and ankle looks so sore.

[TanyanChewy]

Ouch hope you are feeling better now. That bruise is spectacular & I think its always nice if you actually have something to show for the pain :P

I think its nice that your trainer is willing to continue working on her but I have to agree with Susan in that you should consider setting a time limit on it before you make a final decision - as much as you clearly love Kita you obviously want to enjoy riding again and understandably thats difficult when she is clearly so unpredictable

I know all too well about having a horse with such an unpredictable manner (Chewy and I have many a tall tale to tell but dont want to hijack this post) and I also know about the guilt that you feel when you are considering alternative options but you need to do whats best for you and her in the long run.

I hope it works out for you both and that you are on the mend x

[amandaxx1]

Aw hope you figure something out, will have to have a good think wont you.

That bruise is a good one!!!!!!

[x x Helen x x]

I was going to say same as HMM if F might take her on. Can understand about not wanting to see her out with someone else but maybe when youve got your own horse your happy with you wont mind so much.

Maybe one more shot though she is going nicely in the vid but still seems concerned about it all

[Storm]

Firstly, that's not a bruise... This is a bruise....;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Storm999/Image007-3.jpg

Although I agree yours looks painful!!!

Secondly, you are not a jot too big for her - as has already been said, she's like a coiled little spring then - once she relaxes and comes into herself you will look absolutely spot on...

Thirdly and Finally, well done for persevering, do try some calmer perhaps and enjoy your yard duties - you can do it lass :)

[kiagirl]

Hi ZM, was Kita lunged before you got on her? My instructor who helped me back Lib always insisted that she was lunged before I got on, even if she had just been on her. This gave her chance to listen to my voice an commands and to engage her with me before I got on board. She looks good in the vid tho, how many times a day is she being worked?

[Loony]

Oh Hayley I'm so sorry, I thought the yard and training might do her some good. I agree that there's no point in keeping a horse that you won't enjoy, it sounds like she'd be a big project for someone very brave.

xxx

[Zeitgeist Mom]

Ouch Zoe :sick: That looks so painful! Why do we do this to ourselves? :lol:

Kiagirl - no, she wasn't lunged before I got on, but she did work her till she was nicely settled. She hasn't been lunged, only long reined, and I'm hopeless at it :rolleyes:. I think I should maybe work on her long reining myself - I could do with the practise.

But on another note ... I have just had a response to my ad :scared:. So now I do possibly have the option of selling her. The girl who phoned breeds arabs, but liked the look of Kita in her ad pic. She said she would want to back her, but would like to breed a foal from her first. I don't know what to do!!!!

[Smurf]

I would be honest with her, tell her Kita's story so far and if she still wants to buy then sell and use the money to get something you can enjoy x

[Elliebellie]

Hi ZM... I agree with others... she does look incredibly tense in the pic. Has hertrainer ever tried dismounting and remounting after a period of work in a session? it could be that kita simply thought she was finished and wasn't anticipating you getting on...

Pesonally I think you're doing the right thing by Kita by letting K carry on with her training... I can understand perfectly well if you don't want to get on her again buy giving her the consistency of someone shre already knows - and likes, you are giving her the best chance possible....

[Zeitgeist Mom]

Lee - I did tell her everything, 100% honest. Only thing is I forgot to put her height in the ad :rolleyes: and I think the girl might have thought she was bigger.

For now will just take up F's offer, and keep working on her. If someone wants to buy her from my ad, if I'm happy that it is a suitable home, I might go for it.

[Anni~Bell]

Definatly not too big hun! Only reason you look so big is because she is quite tense :) Don't give up too soon because you have done wonders with her you really have

[noonoo]

Ouch that bruise looks a bit painful!

You look really good on Kita xxx

[Zeitgeist Mom]

Thanks Anni & Nicola :)

[amandaco]

was she allowed to go forwards or was she restricted? at that moment she looks as if she wants to go forwards but is being held. babies need to be allowed and encouraged forwards. otherwise they can explode rather spectacularly!
leg looks painful :(

[kiagirl]

I think Amandaco makes a good point. If it was me, I would carry on but work her 2 or 3 times a day, not long sessions but regular sessions until she has worked a number of times without exploding and really praise her. I would turn her out 24/7 if possible, but ensure she has been turned out before you get on her and really lunge her/ loose school before anyone gets on her back to let her get her demons out. I would let F work with her for now, but keeping her advertised. She looks great and every youngster has some quirk I spent about 2 weeks were Libby would only go backwards! You do look really good on her though!

[Zeitgeist Mom]

Amanda - no, you're right, she was restricted. And to be honest I wish she hadn't held onto her - I think I may have fared better if I had had control of both reins.

Kiagirl - we have decided to turn her out 24/7, F will work with her in the mornings, and hopefully (depending on my hours at the yard) I will get a chance to spend an hour with her in the evening just standing on the mounting block, grooming her, leaning over her etc trying to rebuild her confidence.

[My Crazy Clan]

Good Plan x

[so-n-so]

I'm not sure. I do know she was badly treated in her first home, but I don't know details.

She definitely has issues about being mounted, but that could be due to my fall last year when I sat on her. And then showed her my foot. Scary stuff!! she went beserk then and I came off and she wouldn't let me back on.

It could also be that my body protector shoulder pads were a bit rustly. I don't think she liked them too much, but I'm glad I didn't take them off because I landed hard on my shoulder, and I really think the BP helped.

she looks really really tense!!! :scared: no wonder she went mad!

i was going to say that maybe she remebers that last time you sat on her, she could have been beaten if someone had got on her at one point and its scared her and stayed with her.

im not doubting your trainer but if i had been her and you were getting on i would have been VERY aware of her body language - and if she was like that i would have told you to get off.

iv been thru what your thinking with kita with millie, should i sell her, keep her, keep at it etc.. but i know she wouldnt end up in a good home, :(
shes too difficult to end up somewhere nice, in an ideal world id love her to go to a home where she was treated well and loved and have a forever home.

[Teej]

Spectacular bruise! My daughter never bruises and gets very upset at not having anything to show for her injuries :rolleyes:

I'm glad F has offered to keep trying, it tells me that she genuinely wants to help Kita to overcome whatever it is that terrifies her....and she probably will be able to help her. Baby hates being restrained at any time but particularly when mounting, we used to have high ding dong with her!

I agree with the others about how tense she looks in the pic and yet she is working very nicely in the video with a lovely walk and trot. I also don't think you look too big on her in that pic?

I sincerely hope that things work out with Kita .... x

[Tarka the horse]

Haven't read anything other than page one....nice bruise!!!!

I'm amazed that your natural trainer allowed you to continue getting on her and attempt anything at all given how extremely tense she is. You trainer should be looking at the horse, not your foot!

[Susan]

Hi Hayley,
Just caught up on the thread - I think its great that you now also have the option of someone interested in buying her. It makes it more real in your head and lets you explore how you feel about it knowing that there is a real possibility of her going to a new home. Maybe when push comes to shove you'll feel you want another try at her.

You have loads to think about - wishing you all the luck in the world! Hayley, I also know of a really quality horse that is for sale, but the owner would consider long term loan to the right home. It belongs to a friend of M's owner. The horse has evented/sjd/dressaged. I know I might sound insensitive, but if you were at all interested I would send you the details. xx

[Zeitgeist Mom]

Haven't read anything other than page one....nice bruise!!!!

I'm amazed that your natural trainer allowed you to continue getting on her and attempt anything at all given how extremely tense she is. You trainer should be looking at the horse, not your foot!

Thing is, she wasn't too bad until I was actually on her ....

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb216/Hayleywart/Nikita/DSC08798.jpg

[Smurf]

Thing is she looks quite relaxed in that pic, then boom, she is off! Can she be tempremental like that? I think its already been suggested but what about a calmer?? Only thing with that is i feel if you go down that road using calmers at this stage it could be masking a real problem. Your in such a hard situation, you obviously love her to bits but your putting your life on the line with the way she is being just now. I was talking to my OH about it - your predicament (hope you dont mind?) and i decided if that was to happen with Vinnie i would sell, loan out and get something else. I explained to him when your younger you would (or i would have) stuck it out, and rose to the challange, finding out what her problem was and try to help/get over that hurdle. But when you have a family, children and have grown up your attitude changes, well mine has. I would be heart broken but wouldn't want to put myself through "what if".

[bimba]

She looks so chilled in that pic, totally different picture to the one when you're on. Maybe she freeked out becasue you feel different to the trainer and she's clearly a very sensitive horse. I think you doing more with her may well help, it could be that she's just very much a 'one-to-one' horse as a lot of more highly strung horses are so if she were to be more used to you working with her then she might feel differently about you being on board. Personally I would try a herbal calmer with her as it may just take the edge of which would give you more time to gain her trust being ridden rather than her confidence constantly being dented and her getting into a negative mindset about being ridden.

How do you feel about selling her now it's actually a reality? When I thought I was going to have to get rid of Mac and TJ due to going through a bit of a rough patch I was okayish with it until I had a response to the advert and it became a reality at which point I realised there was absolutely no way I could part with Mac in particular.

*fingers crossed* something clicks in her brain in the next few weeks and you can keep her!

[Zeitgeist Mom]

Lee - yes, she can be very funny like that. The day before she bolted with F on her (she fell off too) At the time we put it down to the reflective jacket she was wearing, but what worries me is you never know what might trigger it, and if F can't sit her explosion, I don't know who could.

Bimba - I think I could sell her, largely because I don't know if I would ever be able to trust her enough to get on her again. F had her going calmly, she stood calmly for me to get on, and then blew up. How will I know if she would do it again next time I try?

[Lucy]

I am so sorry that she is being such hard work. If it's any consultation I don't think you look too big on her at all! You have so much will power to stick with her. We are all behind you though as you know :)


She looks so tense..Some horses just aren't happy being ridden and theres nothign you can do...maybe the instructor will be able to work wonders with her though so it may be worth perservering some more....

[chaz666]

i had a horse like that, i ended up selling him because he was 17.1hh and it was a long way too keep falling every time i got on him! he's now going very niceley in his new home with hsi new owner who rode him 3 times a day to start with till he got over it!

also at college we had an ex eventer who was very cold backed.. if you got on him and sat down (as you do to mount a horse lol) he would just bolt and explode... however if you got on and just stood in the stirrups for a little bit he'd be fine!

[Sasca]

while she is in someone elses hands, why dont you ask your trainer to sell her when she thinks she's ready? she could keep a bit for herself to cover any outstanding bills, tell you who the buyers are and if your happy, let her go.

If your on the fence but know it is right for her to go, it is really hard to then deal with several people coming forward and being impersonal about your baby, and you having to decide between people or turning unsuitables away. It wont help your stress levels, maybe your trainer would be willing to sell on your behalf and you just meet the finalists?

You are not giving up on her by moving on and its not a negative thing. If she is not right for YOU, then its not worth it. The pair of you will never be in a place of trust and mutual understanding if you dont trust her to start with. There's is no point having a life time horse that is not what you want, no matter how much you love them. I think you are making the right decision. If you think breeding will be good for her, studs will only be interested for the next couple of months for a baby next year….just a thought…


Sorry its come to this for you, its not your fault.

[Teej]

She doesn't look too bad in that second pic. It's not an easy decision when you love and have become attached to her but give yourself some time as you've just been through the most traumatic experience with your Mums illness and her passing so don't be in any hurry. As you say, she costs almost nothing to keep but its understandable that you're missing riding. Can you not ride elsewhere a couple of times a week whilst you/F persevere with Kita? It sounds like she may need to mature some more (Baby was only backed at 5, common for Arabs/ Anglo Arabs) and I've heard that Friesians take longer to mature too. Hopefully your circumstances will have changed for the better next year which may be a good time for Kita to go back to F?

I have been 'trying' not to say this but will anyway as it's been in the back of my mind ever since you mentioned that you may sell her but I'm so worried that she'll end up in bad hands again, even if you do sell her to someone nice now.:( I know your health and welfare are important and must come into it........ but you're doing such a good job with her and you've given her a kind and loving home and that can only be helping her to learn to trust humans again after what she has been through in her baby years.

[Cyprushorses]

Hi. Sorry to hear about the kerfuffle. Part and parcel of having a youngster, eh? Without seeing how your trainer works with horse, I won't judge from the picture. One picture can be misleading.

I hope things start to go well with her. I reschooled a very problamtic youngster (ended up in a neck brace at one point), and all I can say is take it slowly. I decided not to sell until I had her trust. When I got it, I didn't want to let her go. Now though (after a few years of being together), she's in a really lovely home. Chin up and good luck!

[Jan]

Ouch, that looks very painful.

She doesnt look too happy at all in those pictures does she, I actually dont think you look that big on her to be honest but it is quite hard to tell from the picture because of the was she is stood.

Im sure you will make the best decision for all of you.

[Autumn]

Oh blimey, that's one hell of a bruise!!

I know you've said Kita is very sensitive but I remember my last horse Autumn was the same but probably not quite so bad, but he was very sharp so i sent him away for backing and the early stages were very eventful for his trainer but then all of a sudden it just clicked and he settled so there is hope?

On another note, with Charlie who is now 8, I had to get off him out hacking once as he was pratting about and that freaked him out as it's something i'd never done before and it's taken months of reassurance to get off him as he was so tense and would leap away in fright the minute I went to get off (very weird being on a horse and not being able to get off!), so it could well be that Kita remembers what happened the last time you got on her last?

I agree with the others though, you should set a time limit to continue with her training and don't feel bad if you decide to sell as if she's not suitable then it's not worth the risk and after all, we're supposed to enjoy this riding malarkey!

x

[Zeitgeist Mom]

Thank you all so much for your replies. For now I am going to work at the yard in exchange for her to continue with Kita's training. If she progresses to the point when I feel I can trust her, and am confident enough to ride her myself, then I'll keep her. If I decide in the end that she is still too unpredictable, I will put her up for sale, or hopefully as Sasca suggested sell her through F. At least that will then give me a bit of a start to a new horse fund if necessary.

[amandaco]

hmm as good as the trainer is maybe shes not the one for Kita?

the horse will often walk a few steps naturally when someone gets on as its unbalancing.

preventing that can make them panic...

prehaps get on her in the stable if shes relaxed in there with a bucket of feed and just lay across her,get on and off and wiggle about until shes relaxed and munching happily. they need to accept and be happy with things moving about on their backs.

allow her to move about if she needs to. and take it a step at a time. may take weeks to get to that point, esp as shes had a scare.
once shes happy pop your leg over and just lay crouched on her- give her some treats from on board and let her sniff and poke you.

once shes happy with that, which again may take weeks!, sit up and then get someone to have the bucket of feed and encourage her to take a few steps.

use your voice- voice training when leading gives them a better idea what you want! the worst thing is a confused AND scared horse. a confused horse is workable.

only use your legs once she is walking about freely with a relaxed back outside using the feed.

she looks/ sounds no where near ready for a rider on in the school- the space makes it easy for them to panic and run and then panic more.

i really hope you can work her through it, dont take unnecassary risks and dont cut corners with her. make each step really thoroughly done before adding more.