Traffic Calming

[TheCouncil]

Hi, this is going to be an odd one, but I was googling for advice and came across the forum and hoped you could offer some insight.

I am designing a traffic calming scheme for a village with a very busy road running through it. Within the village is a riding school/stables, so I am guessing that horses will be transported in/out reasonably regularly. There's plenty of information out there on the impact of traffic calming on most road users, but nothing I can find on horseboxes and trailers. I'm guessing having a 'live' load makes things a little more interesting. I wouldn't expect to see horses on the road, it really is VERY busy, I took about 5 minutes to cross it in mid-afternoon traffic, so just views from those that transport their horses.

I'd welcome a bit of advice/experience on what measures are most suitable in your experience. Please try to be constructive! I've got an idea of what I'll be doing in my mind, but I'll keep it quiet for now to avoid influencing any discussions.

Thanks in advance for your input.

[eeek]

Hi
In my experience most people transporting horses go VERY slowly and carefully so there is not really any need to calm them down. Horses can so easily become hurt or frightened whilst travelling that any self-respecting owner makes sure they are going very steadily.

Sleeping policemen and suchlike which go from one side of the road to the other would not be good for horse transport, and the driver would probably slow down to about 5mph to get over it. The square bumps might be better... What other options are there?

[Bay Chaos]

Ditto the above. The square lumps may mean that larger horse lorrys just straddle them, but trailers will still have to go over, but they are less severe on the sides aren't they???

Mini roundabouts are a nightmare when towing, not at all nice for the horse to balance through, so if it was a painted one, I'd be going over it I'm afraid.

My thoughts are how about those bits that make you give way to the traffic the other side? That way, no nasty bends or bumps.

When driving or towing livestock, the golden rules are to drive smoothly, read the road ahead and brake in good time and take corners very slowly. Have you tried standing in a moving lorry or trailer? May be worth a try and ask the driver to drive aroun d obstacles you are thinking about. Then you'll have an idea what will work best.

[TheCouncil]

Sorry, I probably was a bit unclear. There is no issue with speeding horse transport, but I didn't want to make life unduly difficult for those transporting horses while slowing all traffic.

Speed cushions are what I am currently thinking of, as larger vehicles and trailers can straddle them fairly well. Other options are full width humps, mini-roundabouts, road narrowing (too expensive really), central deflection islands to seperate the traffic lanes, give way chicane arrangements, raised junctions (building the whole junction in to a large flat topped speed table), and various visual techniques, like white lining/coloured surfacing/additional signs.

I do like the riding in a trailer idea, although I'd then have to find an old scheme with a bit of everything thrown in.

[black crow]

Road narrowing will be hell for the big lorries and bigger trailers. I have an Equi Trek which is HUGE compared to the Ifor willams trailers. One village put in a triangle turn to try and solve the traffic problem, we couldnt even get on it, let alone turn! So it means a 20 minute detour, which we werent happy about!

It really makes me cringe going over full width humps as it really can knock horses abut in the back, and those little central island things are a pain if someone else is too close to them

So im not sure really :confused:

[Mobell]

Not knowing the layout of the village makes it difficut to give ideas other than general ones already given if there is sufficient space maybe incorporate a lane for large vehicles would help. Or a lane going off the road to the yard to give sufficient time and space in which to turn as with leaving the yard a pulling off lane so you can gradually blend into the traffic.

[daytona]

Hi,

I think if you were to use speed humps the long ones that go totally across the road are very bad.
The squre ones that sit in the midle are best but again any animal transport will be going slowly over them.
Is there any way to have a word with the riding stables / school to get an idea how much 'animal traffic movements' they have?
If its minimal then it may not be as much of a problem?

[My Crazy Clan]

I am not really into speed bumps either, my horse has bad ffooting when it comes to traveling.

[The Little Magician]

I live in the village of Pensilva, and over the years we have had various types of traffic calming on our main road.

The ones that were hard to negotiate were the ones that allow priority over traffic in one direction over the other, especially if the bollards are invloved. I found in this situation people would see my slow vehicle coming the other way and continue to go regardless of my right of way.

We have also had large long speed bumps, they are not too good for the animal or the vehicle.

The one we have at the moment works real well, they are the squares, these seem to be wide and high enough to slow the speeding cars down, but dont have much effect on trailers or lorries as they straddle them, you do however have to practice meeting them square on.

I regularily take my two in the trailer over these up to the moors and they know where they are going as soon as we reach the lumps.:D

[Storm]

What are the main problems within the village you're discussing? It is purely volume of traffic or speeding vehicles?

What are the sizes of the vehicles that pass through the village?

What's the speed limit (presuming 30 if you're considering speed humps)?

What's the geography like?

Those questions aside, the track width of horseboxes and trailers typically are wider than most cars therefore speed cushions don't affect them, thus making the option unsuitable for 'calming' large vehicles, hence my above questions...

If you can answer them, I'll reply again with further thoughts

[TheCouncil]

What are the main problems within the village you're discussing? It is purely volume of traffic or speeding vehicles?

What are the sizes of the vehicles that pass through the village?

What's the speed limit (presuming 30 if you're considering speed humps)?

What's the geography like?

Those questions aside, the track width of horseboxes and trailers typically are wider than most cars therefore speed cushions don't affect them, thus making the option unsuitable for 'calming' large vehicles, hence my above questions...

If you can answer them, I'll reply again with further thoughts

You've done this before haven't you? :cheekywink:

Currently it's traffic volume that's the issue, but the calming is more a deterrent for when a bypass of the village is completed to keep volumes right down.

It's a non-trunk road, but a wide single carriageway and a strategic route, so around 10-15% LGV's currently, but this will drop substantially once the bypass is complete. There is little or no cycle use, but I'd also expect to see this rise as a result of the scheme.

It is a 30. Long straight level road through a village, lots of frontage access, 4 side roads, roundabout at the south end of the village. Road width is typically 6.8m, although opens up to 7.3 towards the roundabout.

Based on the replies I'm still in favour of cushions as my first choice measure, with a 'gateway' feature at each end. Possibly raised junctions too, although in light of the replies here I'm not so sure. Once the designs are firmed up a little I'll consult with the stables anyway, but was keen to get an understanding of the issues before getting my initial proposals together.

Thanks very much for all your help everyone.

[Storm]

You've done this before haven't you? :cheekywink:

Not really the planning stages however I am a traffic cop thus tend to have some experience of roads and various strategies employed over the years... ;)

If I'm understanding what you say, (and I may not be so please correct me if I'm wrong) the measures are for once the bypass has opened to discourage 'rat running' and speeding through the village.

The speed cushions would seem to suit of several levels -

For buses, trailers, horse boxes, so as to cause them minimal disruption

For cyclists, in the event of a cycle path being introduced it can pass down the nearside of the cushion, thus not causing any disruption to cyclists

For horse riders - I appreciate you say the road is currently too busy for riders, however with the opening of the bypass, more riders may feel safe enough to take their horses onto the road and being able to walk or trot past a cushion as opposed to falling up a speed hump every time as my friends horses insists upon...

I personally am not a fan of chicanes, people generally have some regard for the give way and priority signs, however there's always some clever devil with the spacial awareness of a gnat and less driving knowledge than they were born with that will always 'have a go' and 'squeeze through' while you have to plant your brakes so hard your bonnet is carving a furrow in the tarmac and your passenger's noses are pressed firmly against the windscreen - annoying enough in a car, but really not good for horses and any stock carried in a vehicle.

Is there the possibility of, once the bypass has opened, getting a reduced weight limit for the village road, except for access? A 7.5t limit will cut out a lot of heavies cutting through.

Hope that's been of some help, feel free to contact me further if it has or if I can assist at all.

[Savvy]

How nice of the council to be asking around actual horse owners and stables first! I wish our council was this considerate!

As mentioned previously the idea of animal transporting is to be as smooth as possible so any lumps/bumps are not ideal also if putting in central islands width of vehicles has to be considered as does consideration for vehicles turning into the stables as these will obv need a wider turning space than a regular vehicle.

Could you make the road a one way priority strip? I'm not sure what the real name for this is but theres one near a school near us that seems to work as well as a raised area - like a giant speed bump with pedestrian right of way so people have to go really slow. Its less of a bump more of a small slope then about 10metres of this raised ground then a slope down so nice and gentle on the livestock

[lilholley]

I think the square humps are the best option. Also plenty of viability is needed for any give way sections - braking suddenly with horses on board isn't fun!

[fougere]

I do like the riding in a trailer idea, although I'd then have to find an old scheme with a bit of everything thrown in.

Perhaps you could set up somethings at a vehicle test track - like Nuneton or Chobham.
I have travelled in the back of a trailer once. Roundabouts, braking and inclines are horrible. I don't know how horses put up with it.

[TheCouncil]

How nice of the council to be asking around actual horse owners and stables first! I wish our council was this considerate!


Of course, I may actually work for your local council. :cheekywink: We're not all power mad dictators you know! I deliberately didn't say where I worked in case anyone guessed the area in question.

I suppose the 'correct' approach would be to speak to the stables first, but unfortunately chinese whispers tend to occur when we do that, so I want to keep it quiet until we go public with the formal consultation. It's just nice to have a bit of input from the end users.

[Ninfapaola]

I wish some like yourself who wants to understand was on our council then perhaps we might get some bridleways.

[Savvy]

Of course, I may actually work for your local council. :cheekywink: We're not all power mad dictators you know! I deliberately didn't say where I worked in case anyone guessed the area in question.

I suppose the 'correct' approach would be to speak to the stables first, but unfortunately chinese whispers tend to occur when we do that, so I want to keep it quiet until we go public with the formal consultation. It's just nice to have a bit of input from the end users.


Lol your far too polite and literate to work for my local council, I'm fairly sure none of ours have heard of this here interweb either :D