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View Full Version : Gypsy Vanners vs Hairy Cob.


My Crazy Clan
5th November 2011, 03:38 PM
Would you clash a hairy cob as a gypsy vanner?

I ask becuse I have seen loads of hairy cobs for sale and they are being classed as Gypsy Vanners.

Is a Gypsy Vanner just a hairy cob? Or is it a proper breed (which I thought it was), how would you know?

ness
5th November 2011, 03:47 PM
A gypsy vanner or cob ,isn'tclassed a breed, more of a 'type' Rhea.
I would say that an Irish or Gypsy Cob and a Vanner are the same thing. I think the name comes from becasue the gypsies used to use them to pulled their carav(vans)

My Crazy Clan
5th November 2011, 03:56 PM
Oh right I see, sorry I thought they were now recinised as a breed.


I just wondered because M&M sire is a 13hh, very stocky, very hairy (like the GV), didn't know if you would class him as that.

CityLights
5th November 2011, 05:20 PM
All the same thing and not a breed, why anyone would want to buy anything with the name gypsy in it i have no idea,

My Crazy Clan
5th November 2011, 05:32 PM
So is GV just a "posh" name for Cob then?

fairyfeet
5th November 2011, 05:37 PM
Its purely snob value, and signs. By advertising a cob as a GV they are hoping to get more money for it

K8E
5th November 2011, 09:06 PM
They are trying to get gypsy vanners/cobs to be a reconised breed rather than a type. There is a website about it and they now hold classes at some shows for just gypsy vanners/cobs. The website is Traditional Gypsy Cob Society. There is a standard they go by the feathers have to start from the hock on the back and go right over the hoof. The website gives you a lot of information!

To answer your question the people of the society would say that a hairy cob can't be classed as a gypsy vanner/cob unless it has the right amount hair on the legs and some people to advertise saying that they are a gyspy vanner/cob when there legs aren't nearly hairy enough! So are just making money out of the name.

ness
5th November 2011, 11:02 PM
All the same thing and not a breed, why anyone would want to buy anything with the name gypsy in it i have no idea,

Lol can't believe you said that!:lol:

CityLights
6th November 2011, 11:28 AM
I sure as hell wouldnt be paying more for something with gypsy in the name its derogatory,

eeek
6th November 2011, 12:54 PM
why anyone would want to buy anything with the name gypsy in it i have no idea,

Because they're not bigoted snobs perhaps?

Whatever you think of gypsies there's a lot to be said for having a horse bred by them. They have tolerance and hardiness in their genes. The good ones are bred to work and work hard, which is more than can be said for a lot of horses which are bred for no better reason than to look pretty - but don't actually DO anything.

Maybe I'm prejudiced because Kilo, Megan and Hasty have all turned out so fantastic. Kilo is fully gypsy bred, he went to Appleby Fair as a 4-year-old and as a result is not at all afraid of traffic or crowds. Megan and Hasty's breeders both have some gypsy connection too.

And I have saved myself probably thousands of pounds buying stuff from gypsies. I haggle better than they expect me to - it puts them off their stride.

Hairy Fairy
6th November 2011, 02:39 PM
Have to agree with eeek. But then I am biased as I have spent most of the last ten years keeping my ponies on a yard owned by Gypsies and bought my last three ponies from gypsies! lol And like Eeek said....being owned by gypsies tends to make your horses pretty much bomb proof around everything.

I will say that most proper gypsies know their horses and can spot a good one from a mile off. The gypsy who owned the yard I used to be at breeds some amazing horses and has a fantastic eye for spotting diamonds in the rough where horses are concerned.

As for the original question....I was under the impression that Hairy, traditional cobs and gypsy vanners were pretty much the same thing. I first hear of the GV on american websites...I think it was something they made up to make traditional cobs sound more interesting or something. To be honest I don't care what they are called....I have always been a fan of chunky hairy ponios :)

eeek
6th November 2011, 02:54 PM
Have to agree with eeek. But then I am biased as I have spent most of the last ten years keeping my ponies on a yard owned by Gypsies and bought my last three ponies from gypsies! lol And like Eeek said....being owned by gypsies tends to make your horses pretty much bomb proof around everything.

I will say that most proper gypsies know their horses and can spot a good one from a mile off. The gypsy who owned the yard I used to be at breeds some amazing horses and has a fantastic eye for spotting diamonds in the rough where horses are concerned.

As for the original question....I was under the impression that Hairy, traditional cobs and gypsy vanners were pretty much the same thing. I first hear of the GV on american websites...I think it was something they made up to make traditional cobs sound more interesting or something. To be honest I don't care what they are called....I have always been a fan of chunky hairy ponios :)

I think if you have spent a lot of time with gypsies (and by 'spending time' I don't mean driving past a particularly filthy site and wrinkling your nose at it from afar) it makes you less anti-gypsy. People who hate gypsies assure me that the more time you spend with them the worse they seem, but I find the opposite is true.

Hairy Fairy
6th November 2011, 03:06 PM
Most definately...they treat me like family and would give their right arm to help me out if they can, which has always amazed me. They are such characters, so funny and very family orientated. Okay so you do sometimes get your bad apples but most of the time they are all fab. (plus my OH is traditional gypsy on his mother's side His gran lived in one of those wooden horse drawn wagons...how cool is that?? lol)

Just a shame I don't have more money or I could have ended up with some totally stunning animals. (was once offered a black welsh x tennessee walking horse colt...he was fabulous with such a lovely character...I just didn't have the cash! D'oh!) ;)

My Crazy Clan
6th November 2011, 04:06 PM
We have Romany gypsy going back but I do find travelers today and not the same as they used to be, there are a few rough ones about which make the whole Gypsy thing look bad.

M&M dad was from applebe, if merlin went to the person that wanted him there is no doubt in my mind that he wouldn't be out in a cart right now but he wouldn't have been treated like I would have, I am all for taking no shite and getting them out there but many are just to darn violent about it.

CityLights
6th November 2011, 06:42 PM
Because they're not bigoted snobs perhaps?


i think that is highly unfair and uncessary,

and all i mean is that gypsy is quite a dergoatory word to me, perhaps not to you but to me and the majoirty of people i know its derogaroty and have negative feelings, why someone would then want to buy a horse that has been branded as a 'gypsy' horse is beyond me, im not saying these horses are sub par or bad in anyway but i dont know why people would use it as a selling ploy or anything like that

Hairy Fairy
6th November 2011, 08:13 PM
Just been googling about the name "Gypsy Vanner" and it turns out it is a name that Americans have created for the traditional/ hairy gypsy cobs.

Check out the Gypsy Vanner Horse Society and it tells of how a couple of americans came over here, spent time at the appleby fair talking to Gypsies and after years of research picked the best horses to take back and create the "vanner" breed in the states.

amandaxx1
7th November 2011, 10:19 AM
Its purely snob value, and signs. By advertising a cob as a GV they are hoping to get more money for it

Yep this seems to be the way on Horsemart x

eeek
7th November 2011, 12:09 PM
i think that is highly unfair and uncessary,



I don't.

If you are going to say that anything with the word 'gypsy' in it must be so bad that you wouldn't want to buy it, it suggests to me that you are prejudiced against them and that you look down on them.

While we're on the topic of gypsies I just thought I'd mention that every weekend I leave my wallet and a few hundred quid worth of kit unattended in a field full of gypsies. I've left my wallet sitting on the back ramp of the lorry for hours on end, often with nobody there to keep an eye on it. I've never in over 10 years had so much as a hoof pick stolen.

Yet I can no longer leave my wallet unattended when my brother is around (middle class, privately educated, by rights he ought to be civilised but he is a thief).

CityLights
7th November 2011, 12:17 PM
I don't.

If you are going to say that anything with the word 'gypsy' in it must be so bad that you wouldn't want to buy it, it suggests to me that you are prejudiced against them and that you look down on them.

While we're on the topic of gypsies I just thought I'd mention that every weekend I leave my wallet and a few hundred quid worth of kit unattended in a field full of gypsies. I've left my wallet sitting on the back ramp of the lorry for hours on end, often with nobody there to keep an eye on it. I've never in over 10 years had so much as a hoof pick stolen.

Yet I can no longer leave my wallet unattended when my brother is around (middle class, privately educated, by rights he ought to be civilised but he is a thief).

I do not think horses that the gypsies have etc are bad, and i have blantantly said that, but why is it ok for you to call me a biggot and snob which i am neither but im not allowed to think gypsy is a derogatory term, which in my eyes it is,

I know gypsies i have met plenty, from all different places, and for the most part perfectly fine people and as with all people some are not, but not becasue they are gypsies or beasue of thier background becasue they are not very nice people anyway

eeek
7th November 2011, 12:23 PM
I think we have got a bit confused here - I suggest you look up the meaning of the word derogatory and have a think about it, and when I get back from work I'll explain my point of view in detail. Have to go out now.

lil_legs
7th November 2011, 12:28 PM
Most of my horsey life has been spent around gypsies. Arfur, Began and the majority of the cobs we have had in the past were all bought from gypsies. And all of them ended up being amazing horses. They have a brilliant eye for a horse and one bloke I am very friendly with has often come with me to look at a horse or pony. I too have saved a lot of money because of the gypsies around me.

As for the difference between the two, I have always understood it that the amount of hair, bone, and sizing is what distinguishes the two. Alot of people call their box standard cobs GV's when actually they are just box standard cobs because it sounds like a much posher term and in turn can give them the right to over price the horses.

Louise
8th November 2011, 10:09 AM
I am PROUD to call my boy a GYPSY Vanner...*but then we do have horses and dogs and vans a caravans* maybe I am more gypsy than I think :-)

My Crazy Clan
8th November 2011, 11:33 AM
:lol: Louise!

amandaxx1
8th November 2011, 03:05 PM
I am PROUD to call my boy a GYPSY Vanner...*but then we do have horses and dogs and vans a caravans* maybe I am more gypsy than I think :-)

How big is cobbie now though? He may not be a cob anymore, due to being so big!!! :lol: :lol:

AengusOg
8th November 2011, 05:10 PM
I don't think the Americans 'created' the term 'vanner', at all. I remember horses pulling floats and drays around Edinburgh for St Cuthbert's dairy, and the horses were hairy cobs, up to about 14.2hh, some 15hh, and they were known as 'vanners'. I have seen sets of van harness which date back to the 1930s and '40s. The Americans only started importing vanners and coloured cobs within the last ten years.

To me, a vanner is a type of cob capable of pulling a bit of weight. They had to be fairly heavy, with short cannons, plenty of bone and feather, and fairly small so that they had pulling power. A lot of travellers and gypsies favoured ponies around 13.2hh-14hh.

A cob can be anything from around 12hh up to the size of a drum horse, either hairy-legged or clean-legged, with or without heavy bone according to whether it is light, medium, or heavyweight.

Louise
8th November 2011, 10:19 PM
How big is cobbie now though? He may not be a cob anymore, due to being so big!!! :lol: :lol:

Ummmm LOL>..

16h at withers and somewhere up there at the bum!!!