Would this be a good first time horse for me to buy?

[geordie_blonde]

Hiya everyone!
Looking to buy my first horse.. have had some lessons but would probably still class myself as novice.
Looking to buy my first horse and have fallen in love with one but not sure if its a good first time buy?
Shes a 15.2 TB mare, bred by Graham Wiley but 'too lazy to race'.
6 years old and BEAUTIFUL.
She has developed holes in her salivary gland which have calciated and therefore has some large swelling along her jawline.
That doesnt bother me, she is amazing.
Called up a livery yard and she said she would be willing to take the horse but a 6 year old TB is a bad buy for a first time buyer.
The mare is very quiet and well mannered and known in her current yard as the 'sweet one'.
I have been advised by the horses current owner that the lumps on her face need no management and no cost is involved.
I REALLY REALLY want to buy her, been in regular contact with her current owner who has said she is more than happy to sell her to me as she is convinced she is going to a loving home.
The owner of the livery yard also said that owning a first horse is hard as I wont know when something is wrong with her and its the worst time of year.. but everyone has to start somewhere right?
Anyway.. help and advice really needed.
Ive fallen in love with Topaz entitrely but would this be a bad move?
Many thanks in advance:D

[vels mum]

Ok ill run over some points no doubt ill miss tons out.
A 6 yr old TB as a first horse spells disaster to me, but I dont like to judge horses by their breed but it just means you have to be 100% sure of the nature of the horse and make sure what has been described is exactly what you are getting.
Before even considering get a full vetting done, this will tell you if the horses mouth problem is one which will cause complications in the future and to what degree.
Have you watched the horse being ridden? Id want to see it caught from park, taken to stable, feet picked up, tacked up and ridden, perhaps making more than one visit to see the owner do all this.
Other thing to think about is do you have lots of spare time on your hands to care for a horse and quite a considerable amount of spare cash in the bank! Would you do DIY or full livery, obviouslt DIY will work out cheaper but means you are going to have to spend a lot of time down the yard, morning and night.
Whats your plans with her? Are you getting riding lessons at the moment, if so are you going to continue with lessons with Topaz?
I personally think a loan horse would suit you first, as you say you are a novice and only been riding a short while, if you loaned it would give you a taste of what owning is like without having the full reposibility of owning a horse, good luck :)

[geordie_blonde]

Heyah, thanks for the quick reply :)
Im going to visit her again next week to see everything again.
I am currently getting lessons and would most definately get them with Topaz.
Im not looking to do anything like eventing or dressage, just light hacking through the woods and on the beach.
I emailed her current owner a list of questions which she answered, I can post them if it will give you more of an idea?
She also said I was welcome to trial her to see if she was what I was looking for :)
Oh and also I was after grass livery.. she currently lives out all year round rugged up.
The yard I talked too sounded very reasonable £25pw for grass livery with a shelter in the feild, and full use of their indoor school
x

[vels mum]

Livery sounds reasonalbe but you MUST get a vetting done on her before you consider buying, esp as she has complications in her mouth.
Also go see her being ridden etc, and then try her yourself

[Lorraine]

Hiya everyone!
Shes a 15.2 TB mare, bred by Graham Wiley but 'too lazy to race'. 6 years old and BEAUTIFUL.

I would assume this statement means that she was bred to race, has been trained to race and very likely actually raced for them to know that she is too lazy to make a career out of it.

This means you would be essentially be buying an ex-racehorse that was backed at 2 and has been in training and raced for 4 years as a first horse and this would certainly be a bad idea for a first time horse owner to take on.

She has developed holes in her salivary gland which have calciated and therefore has some large swelling along her jawline.
That doesnt bother me, she is amazing.
Although the cosmetics might not bother you the possible implications of this should do. What caused her to develop holes in her salivary glands? Are the number or sizes of the holes or the calcifying lumps increasing? Anything that "develops" could still be continuing to develop. This needs to be checked by an independent vet.

Called up a livery yard and she said she would be willing to take the horse but a 6 year old TB is a bad buy for a first time buyer.
Generally speaking, a 6 year old is not a great idea for a first time buyer, a TB is not a great idea for a first time buyer, therefore a 6 year old TB is not a good idea - but there are always exceptions to rules.

The mare is very quiet and well mannered and known in her current yard as the 'sweet one'.
In a yard of evil horses, a not so evil one would be known as the 'sweet one' - don't take any notice of hearsay especially when you don't know what they are comparing her to.

I have been advised by the horses current owner that the lumps on her face need no management and no cost is involved.
Don't hold any trust in what an owner tells you - unless she is a qualified vet then she is not qualified to tell you whether the holes or lumps require any management now or in the future or whether they are likely to get worse, have any long term effects on the horse, etc. As Vel's mum says - I would advise getting a full vetting done, and tell the vet before the vetting about the holes and lumps and the explanation the owner has given for them so that he can pay particular attention to them when doing the vetting. If the vet advises that any further tests are needed to ascertain the full nature of these hole or lumps then get them done - don't leave it to chance - for the horse's sake and yours.

I REALLY REALLY want to buy her, been in regular contact with her current owner who has said she is more than happy to sell her to me as she is convinced she is going to a loving home.
When you fall in love with a horse it can be easy to overlook/push aside any bad points or persuade yourself they don't matter and it can be all the more heartbreaking, dangerous, or even fatal later if you find you've made the wrong choice because you didn't heed any warning signs.

So try to look at her totally objectively when you visit again. Don't rely on information provided by the owner (they don't always tell the truth) - check out for yourself anything you are told - the only information that you can rely on is what you see and your own checks as to accuracy of any information they give you, so look carefully and check where you can. If you don't, it can be costly - both financially and emotionally.

The owner of the livery yard also said that owning a first horse is hard as I wont know when something is wrong with her and its the worst time of year.. but everyone has to start somewhere right?
Owning a horse in the winter is more expensive and difficult than in the summer. Horses in winter need hay and licks in the fields to maintain condition because there is little or no grass and it is not growing fast as it does in the spring/summer, added to which the horses need more "fuel" to maintain condition because of the winter weather. So there are often added costs to any grass livery charge, whereas in summer the horses only need the grass in the field so there are no extras to the grass livery charge. Added to this some horses may need hard feed in winter which again is extra cost and requiring the owner to attend to the horse daily or twice daily to feed - which often means feeding in the dark because of fitting around work routines. Hardy native breeds, cobs, etc that hold weight easily often require little extra care over the winter, whereas finer breeds such as TBs that don't hold weight so well often require more care and feed over the winter. Therefore it is best to budget around an extra £10-£15 per week on top of your grass livery charge for hay, feed, licks etc for a TB.

So be aware that you are looking to buy a horse at a time of year when it is most expensive to keep a horse and when the horse requires the most time and commitment, and you are also looking at a type of horse that is more expensive and requires more care in the winter than many other types of horses.

If the horse has to be kept in at night for any reason (ie management of illness, injury, skin problems, administration of medicines) then again this means bringing the horse down the yard and back to the field each day in the dark during the winter.

This is why the yard owner is saying it is the worst time of year for a first time horse owner to be buying a horse. It's like throwing you in at the deep end.

Ive fallen in love with Topaz entitrely but would this be a bad move? Many thanks in advance:D
Although there are always exceptions, and of course I haven't seen the horse and don't know your experience or lifestyle it's difficult to say one way or the other with any certainty. However, generally speaking I would say it's a bad idea for a novice owner to buy a 6 year old, TB or ex-racehorse and certainly not all 3 in one horse. Buying a horse with any current medical condition or physical defect is also not a good idea for a first time horse owner.

I know this isn't what you want to hear - and understand you've fallen in love with the horse and would give her a loving home - but love isn't all that is needed, just think for a moment what is best for her. Personally from what you've said I think she deserves to go to a more experienced, more knowledgeable home than it sounds like you can give her at the moment.

You have to think not only about whether she is a good buy for you, but are you the right owner for her?

[helena]

Very well put Lorraine. I would just add that my friend has recently bought a similar horse, 6 years old, ex-racer with a couple of problems. Although she was cheap to buy as most ex-racers are she is costing a fortune to keep as she needs all sorts of supplements due to various conditions such as gastric ulcers that most ex-racers have.

My friend has also been riding for 20 years and has worked on some top event yards but still finds her a handful, and she is only 15.1 and was supposed to be 'sweet and easy' too.

Personally I would walk away from this one and get something more suited to a novice such as a cob type, and at least 8 years old.

[CityLights]

At the end of the day not all ex racers are sharp just like not all cobs are lazy, if she is well mannered on the ground and quiet under saddle then i wouldnt see a problem with it, get a good instructor to help you out and make sure you are on a livery yard with good staff to help you and and educate you about keeping a horse as well

I would personally want a vet to come look at the cheek porblem just to get a professional opinion on it and how it might effect her later in life etc just inacse, you dont want lumbering with expensive and long vet bills

[CDR]

What's her weight like? A lot of people will keep weight off TBs because they are calmer, you might find that when she reached a more normal weight she could be a lot more lively.

[bimba]

I think Lorraines reply is pretty comprehensive. I have a TB ex racer who is currently living out 24/7 so thought I'd give you some costs.

Livery is £18 a week.
Feed - he has 2 good handfuls of Hifi and the recommended daily quantity of Allen and Page Calm and Condition. A sack of hifi costs approx. £10 and lasts about 8 - 10 weeks and a bag of calm and condition costs about £12 and lasts 4/5 weeks.
Hay - my 2 are currently on v good grazing but are eating about 2/3 slices a day most of which gets eaten by Mac. I'm still using last years hay which cost me £3 a bale. When it gets colder I reckon on them having half a bale-3/4 of a bale a day.
Supplements - Mac has biotin which is £14 and lasts 6 weeks.
Rugs - he is unclipped and is currently in his lightweight, he also has a medium weight and a medium weight combo plus I have some underrugs so can layer in really cold weather.

[My Crazy Clan]

I would definitely get a vetting done and have her on trial.

[Zeitgeist Mom]

I don't think anyone could really improve on Lorraine's reply, so would just like to say that I do agree with it. Especially as you are really just wanting a hack, an ex racer really isn't the way to go. I have owned three ex racers, and they were lovely, but very quirky, and they need lots of work to burn off their excess energy. If you are just lightly hacking, I fear that energy will just build and build, and even the 'sweetest' of TB's can be a handful when full of pent up energy.

[Sasca]

Putting aside exracer side for a second...

TBs are known for not having good feet and can need some serious management and shoeing extremely regularly, They CAN also be poor doers and need high quality and large amounts of both forage and hard feed, There are many other things that aren't picked up untill about a year after ownership which are worth considering.

Ive known both ends of the TB spectrum so if your happy with her temperament etc give her a go.

If she has been in racing though, 2-3 years is not a long time to undo many of the racing habits, like stubbling, hacking, stable manners, tacking up. Little things an owner can cover up or avoid answering about.

These horse have been kept in stables with little other equine contact in intense work and pressure from an extremely young age. They each develop coping mechanisms which may only be triggered by something obscure but they do all pretty much have something, its the only they didn't go mad half the time!

You would have a lot of support in whichever horse you chose but with certain breeds or career horses, you have to be extra vigilant in your testing!!! good luck!

[vels mum]

Hope we havent been too harsh, we are just trying to advise to the best of our knowledge, have you been to see the horse if so how you get on? x

[eeek]

Good advice from other members.

Another thing to remember, which a lot of people don't realise, is that TBs who have raced or been in training for racing ride COMPLETELY differently from normal horses. For example, if you shorten the reins, they start hyping themselves up ready for a run. Any rider who is not used to racehorses and has only ridden riding school horses would then shorten the reins again to be 'safe' and the horse would get even more hyper and tense. Small movements of the leg or bum can mean GO to a racehorse. Not because they are nutters/neurotic, but because that's what they have been taught.

You would be much better off with a horse that has been ridden by lots of novices and has proved that it is safe. Also, buying a horse is never a thing to leap into!

[astro]

I think most people have covered everything but I thought I would share my experience with my ex-racer who I have now owned for 18 years. I bought her as a 4 years old, underweight and only been in the country a week. She has the sweetest nature and is very easy to handle on the ground. She will hack but MUST be first. She can live out in the summer but as soon as it gets cold she drops weight and as soon as the fields get wet her feet got soft and shoes fall off.

I really do not think an ex-racer is a good first horse, I think it would struggle to maintain weight and live out, and personally the medical condition she has would serioulsy concern me. What is you decided she was not for you, or your circumstances changed in time to come, would she be re-sellable. Personally I would look for something without any medical conditions.

I think you will also find when you look about you will fall in love with another horse, without complications. Sorry if we are being harsh.

[black crow]

Thoroughly agree with Lorraine to be honest.

I know a few people who bought an ex racer as their first horse and they struggled like hell and got through it, but i honestly would not reccomend getting an ex racer as a first horse, regardless of the stereotype or not.

A lot of racers have very little character when they come out of racing, so when they do start gaining it, some can test the boundaries, sometimes moreso then a hack would. They are a hot blood breed, which changes a lot about them. From their reactions to conformation etc.

Yes, TB's actually do make good hacks as the majority of their fitness training is by hacking. I know many people with ex racers who have handled/ridden them before who adore their horse for hacking as they are pretty sensible out hacking [even though they are highly strung] but i dont think this is enough to warrant getting a TB as a first horse. Most ex racers still have their old racing mentalities, which also means that they wont lose a lot of the ways they were trained - i.e most ex racers ive ridden all responded similar in rein contact. I.e pulling on the reins speeds them up.

[Katie Morag]

Totally & utterly agree with Lorraine & the others. Know of two people who have or had ex racehorses. 1 has had a few cause they haven't been right for them & another who found out there was no breaks. And for a novice/beginner rider horse owner, breaks are really helpful.

I loan a 7 year old highland. Loaned her for 2 years since she was 5. Younger than the TB, but the different breeding makes it a bit easier on you. Plus also think how long you've been riding, your experience on & off the horse. It sounds like the yard owner has your best interest in mind & Lorraine has put forward a good case.

TB are lovely horses, you just need to know what your doing a bit more. Look before you leap & all that :)

[chescar]

Personally - I wouldn't buy her, not as a first horse

My first horse is ugly but safe as houses!

[Zeitgeist Mom]

Personally - I wouldn't buy her, not as a first horse

My first horse is ugly but safe as houses!

I hope you're not referring to the uber sexy troy!!

[Belle]

Oh please don't go there. I brought my first horse in January this year and its been a major learning curve for me. You like me probably thought you knew about keeping a horse but I really didn't !!. It one thing having rising lessons its another when its totally dependant on you to do the right thing in terms of care and the like.

I'm so glad I opted for a solid, realiable 12 year old shire X and even she has her moments!!. Its that odd day when they don't plod, they can all spook, nap etc., and send you into a panic but at least Belle never rears or bucks she just runs for home, thats bad enough in itself but it would be much worse on a TB racehorse !!

Belle had a perfect Health history when I got her - but so far she's had a bacterial infection, that took several vet calls to solve, ? ringworm and a swollen eye - I lost sleep over should I call the vet, shouldn't I call the vet !! Its all scary stuff when its new to you - I worry that she got these things because I missed early signs through my lack of experience. Vet says not its just how it is sometimes - but just goes to show things happen even with the most healthy of horses.

If you like me are just wanting to be a hacker - there's plenty of horses out there that want that too - I'd find one of them. There's nothing worse than being out, your horse playing up and you not knowing what to do because they tend not to do these things in your riding lessons as I know through bitter experience.
Don't out horse yourself as it will just scare you and you won't want to go out. I had some major confidence issues when Belle played up when I first had her. She was just trying to find out who was in charge but I didn't realise that and for a short while began to not want to ride her !!
O.k we've got over that now but that was on a reasonably placid, well behaved horse.

Don't make a mistake by biting off more than you can chew, despite how much you love this horse, think about it as it wouldn't be fair to her either !!